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leader(2022) vs. ivey(2110) 1/2-1/2

Login to get PGN standard 45+45, 2013-03-10

24...axb5 (4:45) 25.axb5 (0:04) Nc3 (1:17)
golddust(2129) whispers: strong move. Now the white b pawn is lost.
DodgeBrother(1674) whispers: go ivey!
26.Rxa8 (3:06) Rxa8 (0:09)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: Rb2 would be nice ;)
ivey(2110) whispers: please rb2 protect your pawns
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: haha
golddust(2129) whispers: Note that white rook has to stay on 1st rank because of Mate threat!
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: we are cruel
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yes yes
27.Rc1 (1:06) Nxb5 (0:05) 28.Ne5 (1:24) Nxd4 (0:09)
ivey(2110) whispers: meh
29.Nd7+ (0:08)
ivey(2110) whispers: overlooked nd7
29...Ke7 (0:38)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: 4 vs 3 all on one side is not easy to win, but with R and N still on the board its possible
Jammes(1888) whispers: didnt think this was a good trade. weak pawn against passer. but he said he overlooked
30.Nxb6 (0:18)
golddust(2129) whispers: yes and so the passed pawn is gone. But black still has advantage.
30...Ra2 (0:12)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: piece activity is still significant
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: impossible to lose anyway
Jammes(1888) whispers: would id be good or bad for black to trade rooks after nc4 for example. i guess bad
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yeah, not sure if the GPs make much difference at this stage
wmahan(2004) whispers: will take good technique to win though
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I think the knight ending has more winning chances than the rook ending
31.g3 (2:28)
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: might be more a case of need good tecnique to draw
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: think with best play white has draw here
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: buzz kill
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: white wants rooks on imo
wmahan(2004) whispers: without the Ns I think white plays h4 and it's a draw
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yes
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: at least rule of thumb is to always play rook endings with single rooks
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: without knights its a book draw
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: and they say that K+N endings = K endings
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: in practice
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: very generalized ofc
ShakaZahn(2029) whispers: and K endig with pawn up should be winning
golddust(2129) whispers: so what is black's best move? g4, f4, h4 or e5?
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: of those I would say e5, since all the others are illegal moves :P
ivey(2110) whispers: rc7 kf6 nd7 kg6 ne5 seem a trheat
golddust(2129) whispers: I tend to agree with blackcat.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: hmm e5 Rc7 allows Ke6, maybe that helps
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: also just allows Nd5+, but doesn't seem to be a problem
golddust(2129) whispers: That's what I was thinking: Rc7+, Ke6
golddust(2129) whispers: the question I have is: could the best move be a piece move? Or is it a pawn move?
golddust(2129) whispers: for instance I cannot see anything wrong with Rb2.
ivey(2110) whispers: great was in the act of playing ra7
31...Nb5 (6:08)
golddust(2129) whispers: if e5, Nd5 only gets black king more to the center and so is good for black
Jammes(1888) whispers: i just would say that white has to sit now. h4 for example would allow black to create an outside passer
ivey(2110) whispers: would hvae costed me again a rook in one move
32.Rc5 (1:12) Rb2 (0:14)
golddust(2129) whispers: I didn't fully understand Nb5. Did anyone?
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: just preventing Rc7+
DodgeBrother(1674) whispers: looks like he wants to trade horsies
golddust(2129) whispers: But N wa on a good square on d5!
ahorsE(1651) whispers: leave me out of this dodge
wmahan(2004) whispers: maybe he didn't want to think about Rc7
wmahan(2004) whispers: trading horses leads to a draw
DodgeBrother(1674) whispers: haha
golddust(2129) whispers: I mean d4
golddust(2129) whispers: Black is under time pressure too.
tseltzer(1974) whispers: definitely
33.Nc4 (3:06) Rb4 (0:37)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: rb4 looks pretty lol
golddust(2129) whispers: Pretty square :D
KayVee(1438) whispers: unfortunately black king can't approach the rook
wmahan(2004) whispers: careful with the time comments, sbc can fly into a rage
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: :))
34.h4 (2:06)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I'll let this one pass ;)
Jammes(1888) whispers: obviously white does think diffrent. i thought h5 is no good idea because of f6 g5 and wether white gets a weak h pawn or gives black an outside passer
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: . like they all came same moment wanted something and I have only 10 fingers to type
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: totally crazy
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: mistell
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: this looks really hard to win for black now
wolfypup(1917) whispers: outside pasties are the hardest to convert, i'd be trying to get rid of the other pawns and keep a more central one, but this looks like a (difficult) draw for white
34...f6 (3:03)
Jammes(1888) whispers: yeah, im not sure about my comment. somebody told me that in an rookending this is the pawn setup white wants
wmahan(2004) whispers: yes
wmahan(2004) whispers: in 4 vs 3
35.Kg2 (2:32)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yes in the pure rook ending with 4 vs 3, the main idea to try to win is to play h5-h4 and disrupt the remaining pawns
35...e5 (0:27)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: kind of a moot point though, cos I'm sure black is not going to trade knights if he can help it
36.Rc6 (1:13) h5 (1:57)
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: wait what
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: oh never mind
fredisblogs(1863) whispers: and thats whites goal imo - trade Ns, poss here trying Rb6?
37.Rc8 (1:18)
tseltzer(1974) whispers: hmmmmmmm
GALD(1951) whispers: why not ne3?
fredisblogs(1863) whispers: why not Rb6?
37...Ke6 (1:00)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: why not just g6? they're all playable, but swapping only makes things harder for white if it's pieces. and black's strongest chance is keeping the bits on too
Jammes(1888) whispers: still possible rb8 foreces knight trade i think
GALD(1951) whispers: I don't think a swap of knighs is good for white now
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: ugh, yeah Rb8 seems like a draw
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: Rb8 Rb3 Nd2 Rb2 Nc4 and what is there to do but allow the knight trade?
38.Ne3 (3:27) Nd6 (0:18)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: Nd6 Rc7 Rb7!
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: not sure about the knight ending though
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: maus, what does your soviet school training tell you about the pure knight ending here? ;)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: white should keep the rook.
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: the pawn structure white has set-up is exactly the one needed to draw a 4 vs. 3 ending
wolfypup(1917) whispers: well if either can maneouvre into a position where they can sack an exchange to gain a pawn, then the answer will be clearer
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: can black offer the rook trade though?
wolfypup(1917) whispers: ending, pawn is woirth change in my experience
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: heh all I know is that N-endings are like pawn endings
39.Rh8 (1:50)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: nothing special :-)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: oh well
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: looks like no trade is imminent anyway
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: No, ivey cant force R-trade
39...g6 (1:14)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: if black gives r for n+p the pawns will win it. if white gives r for n+p the pawns will draw it. pretty much the main two outcomes
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: weird line here is g6 Rg8 Kf7 Rd8 Rd4 Rd7+ Ke6 Rd8 Nf5! Rxd5 Nxe3+ fxe3 exd4 exd4 Kd5 and black wins ;)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: oh dear wow. indeed :)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: fun with fantasy lines?
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: blunder into Nf5 is a pattern to watchout
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: its not going to happen unless white is rather co-operative ;)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: but I guess white can just put his rook away... far away from forks, discovery attacks - and just shuffle it around
40.Rf8 (2:22)
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: don't run out o time ivey
40...Ne4 (0:58)
Jammes(1888) whispers: my comment about h4 was just nonsence i realise. i think thats only does matter in some endings with pawns on 2 diffrent wings
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: regarding the knight endgame here:
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: Dvoretsky has a section on knight endgames with pawns all on the same side, and says: "the 'four vs three' position is considered a win"
Twikki(2126) whispers: wondered when he would get around to attacking f2
wolfypup(1917) whispers: not an attack really. kf3 aqn no buildup
41.Kf3 (1:33)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: well Nd2+ Nb3 and Nd4 is a potentially useful re-organisation
41...f5 (0:51)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: this also seems playable, so long as he avoids Kf6
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: hmm.., now f5 Ra8 Rb2 Ra6+ Kdown Nc4, trades f2 for e5
42.Rc8 (0:26)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: that could be the desired rook trade
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: indeed
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: blunder imho
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: my line was unclear :p
42...Rb2 (0:41)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: same idea here, except the king won't have to venture so far away
43.Rc2 (0:25)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: swapsies now, please
43...Rxc2 (0:29)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: ya
44.Nxc2 (0:03)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: still tough ending with less than a minute each move to find best Leader offers a draw.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: ok so Dvoretsky says this is a win, but I have no idea how to do it
xivarmy(2036) whispers: this N ending isn't easy to win though. while 4v3 might be considered generally a win, it has to reduce to 3v2 at some point
Twikki(2126) whispers: get the black king to e1
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: by trying :p You cannot lose it, so keep playing on. - I have no idea about technique either.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: right, not saying that I expect black to win this
kasperyan(1938) whispers: yes won
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: but at least he has steered the game into a technically won position ivey declines the draw request.
44...Kd5 (1:02)
KayVee(1438) whispers: lol ivey - go ivey go
wolfypup(1917) whispers: nc3 forced to allow e4 or black k can't come easily to d1
wolfypup(1917) whispers: as is will be difficult but sack on f2 for central pasties might be a theme
Twikki(2126) whispers: easier for white to make fatal mistakes than black here
CarlosKerber(1692) whispers: ivey has no flag...whats his country?
45.Ke3 (2:03)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: N around to g4 now?
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: and then e5
45...Kc4 (0:49) 46.Ne1 (0:33) Nf6 (0:32)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: 46 f4. swap! then n can hold draw. now black only needs 2 more tempi to win
kasperyan(1938) whispers: no Nc3 :(
47.Nf3 (0:48)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I think on f4 it was possible to play Nf6 fxe5 Ng4+ to maintain some winning chances
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: oh never mind, there is just Kf4
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: worried about wk walk over dark squares ... better not push e4
47...Ng4+ (0:53)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: check first, then e4
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: maybe even Kc3 first
48.Ke2 (0:16)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: kc5 make him work for the opposition and gain one of the two tempi
48...Kd5 (0:33)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: this endgame need to karpov :)
49.Ng5 (0:37) e4 (0:22)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: Nh3-Nf4 seems very hard to crack now
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yes, annoying
wolfypup(1917) whispers: f3 draws
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: well, with the black knight on f3 there are ideas of taking on h4 to win f4
50.f3 (1:24)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: does it? black isn't obliged to take here
kasperyan(1938) whispers: Ne5!
xivarmy(2036) whispers: not sure if this draws... black doesn't have to take and if white takes first it's a passer
Twikki(2126) whispers: probably Nf6
50...Nf6 (0:53)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: grats ivey passed the pawn
wolfypup(1917) whispers: nh3 proves the draw
wolfypup(1917) whispers: threatening nf4 winning a pawn
kasperyan(1938) whispers: black need to passed pawn to wins
51.Nf7 (1:47)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: well black can defend that... and now has a pawn that is going to be passed so might be able to force the N away from such thought seven
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I think the torture will go on for a while yet
51...Ng8 (0:48)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: Nd7 Nh8 Ne5 go ivey go
52.Ke3 (0:18)
golddust(2129) whispers: this Knight should have gone to e8
xivarmy(2036) whispers: unless g4 works at some point yea, this is hardly a proven draw
wolfypup(1917) whispers: ke3. no pastie yet
52...exf3 (0:14) 53.Kxf3 (0:08)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: no no
53...Ke6 (0:18)
Jammes(1888) whispers: is this still a dvoretzki win?
54.Ng5+ (0:19)
golddust(2129) whispers: getting closer to a draw with Ng5+
54...Kf6 (0:02)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: he does not cover this kind of position
kasperyan(1938) whispers: i think draw now :(
55.Nh3 (0:18)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: but a similar position with 3 vs 2 where the 2 are split is drawn, so I guess this is too Leader offers a draw.
xivarmy(2036) whispers: he just goes through an example or two. it's far too complex for a general endgame book to cover 'all' 4v3 positions
ahorsE(1651) whispers: sbk do you have his books or some kind of program
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I have a couple of his books
golddust(2129) whispers: this is a complex ending; Nothing is proven except that black has some advantage.
xivarmy(2036) whispers: but yes, this should hold after exf3, white has a very solid structure and has to trade at least one more pawn to make a passer
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: this draw offer is somewhat fair, but really just wait for black to offer...
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: 3rd one in this game already
kasperyan(1938) whispers: maybe last idea is f go with g the play on the weak h :S ivey declines the draw request.
55...Nh6 (2:10)
ivey(2110) whispers: these offers get annoying
kasperyan(1938) whispers: but need to patience
golddust(2129) whispers: essentially black's only error was several moves ago losing that passed b pawn.
wmahan(2001) whispers: at least ivey's giving it 100%
56.Nf4 (0:25)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: that wasnt an offer - that is begging... please... please :p
ivey(2110) whispers: he should get it that im plaiyng on a win
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yeah, this is some effort
56...Ng4 (0:16)
milpat(1970) whispers: bad maus :)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: respekt
57.Nd5+ (0:18)
KayVee(1438) whispers: kf5
ahorsE(1651) whispers: i think he's trying to triforce
57...Ke6 (0:15)
KayVee(1438) whispers: ke5?
58.Nf4+ (0:04) Kf6 (0:01) 59.Nd5+ (0:02)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: white n has too many squares, this is going to draw
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: bad mouse or good mouse - it is up to black to offer a draw.
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: white shouldnt offer, should claim - if repetition or 50 moves rule
KayVee(1438) whispers: hmm - e5 needed for N
59...Ke6 (0:36) 60.Nf4+ (0:06) Kf7 (0:01)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: now draw
kasperyan(1938) whispers: Kf7 or draw
61.Nd5 (0:19)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: yes but once K enters e6 again it will be drawn
ahorsE(1651) whispers: very neat ending
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: as the structure isnt going to change
ahorsE(1651) whispers: i love the strong commentary
kasperyan(1938) whispers: nf6
wolfypup(1917) whispers: is he actually looking for the accepted draw or looking for the repetition?
xivarmy(2036) whispers: Nf6, then the king goes for a walk
Twikki(2126) whispers: try to win the pawn ending with Nf6 Nf6 Kf6 Kf4 g5+ Kg6?
Twikki(2126) whispers: er, hg Kg6
kasperyan(1938) whispers: Nf6 Ne4
Twikki(2126) whispers: bah, that's drawn
wolfypup(1917) whispers: if nf6 nb4. don't need it there, it has too many squares
xivarmy(2036) whispers: pawn ending should still win though twikki - trouble is white doesn't have to trade ;)
Twikki(2126) whispers: no, that pawn ending is drawn
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: But we thought white doesnt have to trade rooks and somehow ivey forced that
Twikki(2126) whispers: can't win the g pawn straight out, so g gets traded for h and black's king can't get in front of the f pawn in time
61...Ne5+ (3:58)
KayVee(1438) whispers: hmm - succinct explanation
KayVee(1438) whispers: thanks twikki
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: oh that is a good point, thanks :)
62.Kf4 (0:58) Nd7 (0:03)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: i guess white can just use distant opposition, i thought the forbidden e4 square was enough to create a correspondence problem but that doesn't get black far enough ahead i guess
Twikki(2126) whispers: think black's knight is heading for e6
63.Kg5 (0:32)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: yes! picks the draw!
wolfypup(1917) whispers: after nf4 there's no way not to draw now
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: N@h3 and K@g7.... imaginations...
xivarmy(2036) whispers: funny line: Nf8 Nf4?? Nh7#
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: thats not mate
xivarmy(2036) whispers: bah forgot h6 square
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: not quite yeah, h6
xivarmy(2036) whispers: close though ;)
63...Kg7 (1:10)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: can even sack on h5 for two pawns and the black k isn't in front of the pawn so still draw
golddust(2129) whispers: yes white will not allow Kg7. His Knight will attack g6
wmahan(2001) whispers: he's preparing the mate :p
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: yep :)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: ah Ne6# :D
Twikki(2126) whispers: Nf4 Nf8 and he sacs on g6
wolfypup(1917) whispers: no mate. nxh5 gxh5 kxf5 and draw
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: ooooh white king should be careful there
kasperyan(1938) whispers: Nf4 Nf8 and any thing Ne6 mate :P
golddust(2129) whispers: Oh Nf4 not too good !
wolfypup(1917) whispers: it's not fast enough mouse. nf4 is draw. edge pawn and n vs. g and h pawns
64.Kf4 (1:52)
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: lol
wolfypup(1917) whispers: NOOOO!!!!
64...Kf7 (0:18)
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: *wolfypup does a facepalm*
kasperyan(1938) whispers: just dreams
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: :)
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: draw?
65.Kg5 (0:19)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: nf4 is guaranteed draw. again.
65...Kg7 (0:28) 66.Kf4 (0:14)
golddust(2129) whispers: Nf4 is not guaranteed draw. Leader offers a draw.
Twikki(2126) whispers: Nc5
wolfypup(1917) whispers: nf4 was guaranteed draw because nxh5, gtxh5, kxf5 followed by g4 and swap
ivey(2110) whispers: it really annoys me
golddust(2129) whispers: Nf4 then Nf8
kasperyan(1938) whispers: tricky ;)
Pulga(1693) whispers: thanks for letting us know that draw offers annoy you, ivey, we'll use that information when playing against you. ivey declines the draw request.
66...Nc5 (1:19)
golddust(2129) whispers: and the Knight sac on h5 for 2 pawns loses to Nh6: and zugswang
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: anyone doing that is risking a yellow card from TL, btw
wmahan(2004) whispers: it's againts the rules to do to the point of being annoying
wolfypup(1917) whispers: except it's not zug cause k g5 comes back for the h pawn then
67.Ne7 (0:42)
Twikki(2126) whispers: Nxh5 is usually with check
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: what leader is doing is borderline, as it is
golddust(2129) whispers: Nh7 I meant
golddust(2129) whispers: Nh7 is zugswang: white's only move is g4 that is met by f4!
wolfypup(1917) whispers: on nhy7 g4 and the pawn swaps for draw
wolfypup(1917) whispers: except there is no f4 cause the king took it
wmahan(2004) whispers: if only he could pass and wait for Kg5
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: wat why yellow ccard
golddust(2129) whispers: No pawn swap: f4 is a passed pawn my friend!
wolfypup(1917) whispers: sigh!
67...Kf6 (1:12)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I'm not saying it applies here
wolfypup(1917) whispers: n check
68.Nd5+ (0:12)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: so drawn it isn't even funny anymore
golddust(2129) whispers: sorry wolfypup: I thought you meant Kxh5
68...Ke6 (0:48)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: but offering draws to the point of being deliberately annoying is sanctionable though
69.Nc7+ (0:25)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: no golddust, always take f5 not h5 in that line
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: this is a bit different though, in that the draw offers came at various points in the game
wolfypup(1917) whispers: edge pawn vs. g and h and n. and g4 forces swap of last pawn
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: and the mere fact that ivey is annoyed does not make it a disciplinary matter ;)
69...Kf6 (0:53) 70.Nd5+ (0:07) Kf7 (0:02) Leader offers a draw.
wolfypup(1917) whispers: no this is proveable drawn position. i don't see where the sanction could be if he's looking for the repetition
KayVee(1438) whispers: lol
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: right
71.Ne3 (0:18)
Pulga(1693) whispers: I didn't mean to TL games specifically, but for any game vs ivey.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I was just responding to pulga's joke, just to make sure no-one took his advice seriously ;)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: Ne4
Pulga(1693) whispers: but I understand sbc'd point. ivey declines the draw request.
71...Ne4 (0:42)
Pulga(1693) whispers: *sbc's
wolfypup(1917) whispers: nxf5 draw
kasperyan(1938) whispers: g4 draw
LightKnight(1670) whispers: how comes, black has Nxg3 at the end
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: why Nxf5 is drawn?
LightKnight(1670) whispers: after Nxf5, I mean
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: Nxf5 gxf5 Kxf5 Nf6, prevents g4 and holds on corner pawn
wolfypup(1917) whispers: nxf5 gxf5 kxf5 nxg3 kf4
wolfypup(1917) whispers: if ... nf6 kg5 and hovers between g5, g6 and h6
kasperyan(1938) whispers: if white wants draw he has g4
golddust(2129) whispers: It may not be a proven draw but it is clear that Black has NO plan; Black is clearly waiting for an outright bluder and that is why the draw request is being declined.
wolfypup(1917) whispers: this is a proveable draw
golddust(2129) whispers: I said "it May not be": I just don't know. But black has no plan.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: proveable or not, white has to prove it
wolfypup(1917) whispers: i'm stating it is. if nxg3 at the end thyen kf4 then kg5 and either repe or k falls and white k goes to h1
72.Nd5 (3:42) Ke6 (0:23) 73.Nc7+ (0:17)
golddust(2129) whispers: what matters is not what we think but what black thinks. On the other hand it does matter that Black has shown no "plan"
73...Kd6 (0:23)
Pulga(1693) whispers: it's not a proven draw, ivey can hopefully get flagged
74.Ne8+ (0:16) Ke7 (0:02) 75.Nc7 (0:14) Leader offers a draw.
golddust(2129) whispers: WolfyPup I am not arguing your "proof".
ahorsE(1651) whispers: id love flag for the irony ivey declines the draw request.
75...Nc3 (0:33)
Twikki(2126) whispers: he's probably offering the draw randomly because he's not keeping track of the repetitions
wolfypup(1917) whispers: that's my thought twikki
KayVee(1438) whispers: does the server track the positions?
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yes
KayVee(1438) whispers: or is it up to the players?
76.Na6 (0:58) Kf6 (0:07)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: the server tracks it, but the players have to claim it (as is otb)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: server keeps track. if you offer draw and conditions for tournament draws are met, draw is automatic
77.Nc5 (0:53)
Twikki(2126) whispers: move 50 was the last pawn move, so we have a while for that to kick in
wmahan(2004) whispers: Fifty move count started at halfmove 105 (53 halfmoves until a draw).
77...Nd5+ (0:06)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: I think if you are a pawn up you should be able to play on indefinitely anyway
78.Kf3 (0:16)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: not as if players know every book draw in these situations
ivey(2110) whispers: fuck wron check
ivey(2110) whispers: ne2 was nd4 ne6 was it
xivarmy(2036) whispers: it's certainly an unhealthy attitude to demand draw offers/resignations because you feel they ought to be given, but no evidence leader is doing that, and the offers are reasonably spaced out albeit a little against the normal etiquette of waiting til your opponent offers draw after he declines your last one.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: right, just to be clear I was not suggesting leader would be sanctioned for this
ivey(2110) whispers: grrr
wolfypup(1917) whispers: lol don't have to know every draw, just have to know how to get the pawns off. he missed that one
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: just that sanctions are possible for repeated draw offers, if it is deemed to be unreasonable and bothersome
wolfypup(1917) whispers: now not so easy but he's not losing his either, so,,.,
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: here I agree that he's probably looking for a three-fold
tseltzer(1974) whispers: game of the week for me!
78...Nc7 (2:29) 79.Nd7+ (0:17)
Jammes(1888) whispers: what i dont understand is: why is it evry time the player a pawn down offering a draw. i mean i offer it one time and if my opponent thinks he has reasons to try on its up to him to offer a draw the next time
79...Ke7 (0:18)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: yes jammes, that is the normal etiquette, but it's certainly not a written rule :)
80.Ne5 (0:12)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: if he's trying to claim the three-fold, he offers
80...Kf6 (0:02) 81.Nd7+ (0:02) Ke6 (0:01) 82.Nf8+ (0:07)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: as offering a draw and claiming a draw are the same on FICS
82...Kf7 (0:02) 83.Nd7 (0:11) Leader offers a draw.
KayVee(1438) whispers: :)
ivey(2110) kibitzes: stop offering draws
Jammes(1888) whispers: yes, thats sometimes difficult to see. 3 times thats right
Twikki(2126) whispers: now I'm starting to get annoyed
Twikki(2126) whispers: can he be sanctioned for that? ;)
ivey(2110) kibitzes: just let me play and stop annyoing me ivey declines the draw request.
83...Ne6 (1:21)
golddust(2129) whispers: Why talk of sanction here?
wolfypup(1917) whispers: he can get a sanction for spamming maybe... but irrelevant, hye's trying to find the repetition.
84.Ne5+ (0:49) Kg7 (0:14) 85.Nd7 (0:21)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: the TL conduct policy is actually quite clear on this: http://teamleague.org/LightNEasy.php?page=conduct
softblanket(1882) whispers: Isn't this drawn?
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: so..not sanctionable in this case, imo
LightKnight(1670) whispers: is this a record number of comments for watchbot?
85...g5 (0:52)
ivey(2110) whispers: and another 50 moves i will torture him
wmahan(2004) whispers: probably not
wmahan(2004) whispers: hehe
86.hxg5 (0:36) Kg6 (0:04)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: LK: http://mekk.waw.pl/mk/watchbot/statistics
Jammes(1888) whispers: its getting personal :D
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: but this one is broken due to several disconnects.
golddust(2129) whispers: the rules say: Frequent and repetitive draw offers shall not be issued, regardless of the position on the board. Draw offers more often than once every 5 full moves shall be considered disruptive.
87.Ne5+ (0:48) Kxg5 (0:03)
softblanket(1882) whispers: I must have missed that, extremely annoying and noplay issued
88.Nf7+ (0:14) Kf6 (0:04) 89.Nd6 (0:20)
golddust(2129) whispers: so what is "frequent"?
wolfypup(1917) whispers: apparently more frequently than 1 in 10 half moves
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: You have quoted the rule which says what is considered to be frequent in TL.
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: if you offered a draw every five moves from move 1 throughout a game, you might still get sanctioned ;)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: lol if i didn't want to win so much i might do it in my game to see
89...Nd4+ (2:16) 90.Kf4 (0:30)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: Arent both players tired :p
90...Ne2+ (0:10)
golddust(2129) whispers: Yes Maus and I am asking what the numerical value per unit of time is "frequent"
91.Kf3 (0:10) Nc3 (0:06)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: it says in the next line, once every 5 moves
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: 4,5 hours this game is on.
Pulga(1693) whispers: it's written on that very same rule, 1 offer per 5 full moves
golddust(2129) whispers: 5 per minute? 10 per minute?
92.Kf4 (0:13) Nd5+ (0:02)
Pulga(1693) whispers: RTFR
93.Kf3 (0:07)
golddust(2129) whispers: thanks.
KayVee(1438) whispers: pulga, pulga, pulga ;)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: this will teach me not to link to rules during games ;)
93...Ne7 (0:28)
wmahan(2004) whispers: to be fair, we don't have much else to talk about
94.Kf4 (0:15) Ng6+ (0:03)
Pulga(1693) whispers: sbc, if you love sanctions so much, consider applying for FICS admin :D
golddust(2129) whispers: this was actually a good learning experience for those of us who didn't know the rules!
95.Kf3 (0:14) Ke6 (0:02)
golddust(2129) whispers: so I thank you smallblackcat
Twikki(2126) whispers: yeah, this is going to be boring until someone sacs something out of frustration
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: my dislike of sanctions is precisely why I have not so applied ;)
96.Ne8 (0:31)
xivarmy(2036) whispers: i expect someone to go out and literally apply that rule now and test sbc' patience by offering draw on 1, 6, 11, 16, 21, 26, ... ;)
96...Kf7 (0:07) 97.Nd6+ (0:05)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: oh Christ
wolfypup(1917) whispers: yep would have been gotw but now it's gone too much to a war of atrition
97...Kf6 (0:05)
Pulga(1693) whispers: 45 sec increment is way too long
98.Ne8+ (0:32)
golddust(2129) whispers: do we have a NGOTW category?
98...Kg5 (0:16)
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: LOL gd
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: i vote my game!
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: and yet, everyone stays to watch...
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: i can sense leader yawning
KayVee(1438) whispers: i wouldnt dare leave
ivey(2110) whispers: finally fgot time to pee
KayVee(1438) whispers: nf5 next
Twikki(2126) whispers: lol
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: lol
Pulga(1693) whispers: if white really wanted to annoy the opp, he could just sit for 10 minutes.
KayVee(1438) whispers: and king gets to g4
bowserJRzhu(1707) whispers: and bore ivey out
99.Ng7 (1:34) Ne5+ (0:19)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: really, i'm just curious how long it will take the playersw to play out this (on move 53 already) draw
Veit(1954) whispers: i want to play a onlinegame vs ivey and this guy plays that stupid chessgame
100.Kg2 (0:26)
Veit(1954) whispers: Kg4
wolfypup(1917) whispers: makes no difference. it's still a draw
golddust(2129) whispers: Kg4 then Ne8 ready for check on f6
Twikki(2126) whispers: that assumes best play, and I'm not convinced we'll see that
Veit(1954) whispers: leader could force a draw ealier he may drop that game
wolfypup(1917) whispers: actually even not assuming best play it's still very drawn. only have to get one more pawn off and sac for the other. pretty simple plan
KayVee(1438) whispers: gets an A+ for effort ivey >:)
golddust(2129) whispers: perhaps the reason this game is going on is the same as "a watched pot never boils". So farewell my friends. I suggest everyone does the same and help end this game as soon as possible!
xivarmy(2036) whispers: except that order doesn't work wolfy as white cannot force another pawn off with this setup. so instead all it takes is one small blunder by white and black's got penetration and wins g3
100...Kg4 (4:01) 101.Ne8 (0:27)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: well Nd7 looks clear
wolfypup(1917) whispers: takes more than a small blunder though. after nd7, kf2, then blackj has to move again
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: yeah I guess kh3 is not achieving anything there
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: and no way to triangulate
wolfypup(1917) whispers: and if anything else then nf6 forces the black king backwards
wolfypup(1917) whispers: takes a LOLT more than one small blunder
softblanket(1882) whispers: I'm glad they are still playing this, no telling how it'll turn out
101...Nd7 (3:37)
wmahan(2004) whispers: we need a new rule, no sarcasm more than once every 5 full moves
wolfypup(1917) whispers: LOL
softblanket(1882) whispers: you don't understand. that would destroy me, it would be over
softblanket(1882) whispers: I would just talk about the weather then, you really want that?
102.Kf2 (0:53)
wmahan(2004) whispers: :p
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: Nc5-e4?
softblanket(1882) whispers: I think that wins funkmaus, good eye
wolfypup(1917) whispers: we'd just have to weather it softblanket
softblanket(1882) whispers: ;)
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: no, Nf6+ and N back, K cant hold on g4-square
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: We can talk about the weather :)
CarlosKerber(1692) whispers: im going to 59 yo and never experienced the snow
milpat(1970) whispers: u should!
Jammes(1888) whispers: well ivey will probably torture leader and us. he will wait for 50 moves before moving an other pawn :)
KayVee(1438) whispers: come to mass.
KayVee(1438) whispers: just got a foot y'day
CarlosKerber(1692) whispers: invite me to ur land pat
Jammes(1888) whispers: perhaps with an other 30 minutes disconnection by leader
102...Nc5 (2:56) 103.Nf6+ (0:45) Kg5 (0:13)
Twikki(2126) whispers: reminds me of a game a friend played at the National Open back in the 80s... 7pm start time, he's paired against Bisguier. At midnight he has an edge in a double minor piece endgame. at 2am he has B&N vs king. At 4am Bisguier finally gets mated. next round was at 9am.
104.Ne8 (0:13)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: lol
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: wow
Jammes(1888) whispers: but now i m addicted to watch this till the end
104...Ne4+ (0:47) 105.Kf3 (0:32)
CarlosKerber(1692) whispers: sac now?
softblanket(1882) whispers: leader has him right where he wants him now, at first I thought it was drawn
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: now or never worth a try
Funkmaus(2138) whispers: N is bad in a fight against corner pawn
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: hell yeah, Nxg3 and pray
105...Nd2+ (0:33) 106.Kg2 (0:26)
CarlosKerber(1692) whispers: !BCS->(gasp)
Twikki(2126) whispers: maybe triangulate now
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: didn't realise that men can gasp ;)
softblanket(1882) whispers: those in touch with their feminine side can
wolfypup(1917) whispers: triangulate what? white n is poised for nf6
Twikki(2126) whispers: Kh6-g6-g5
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: triangulate with Kh6-g6-g5
wolfypup(1917) whispers: kh6 kh3 and ...?
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: not sure it has any point
kasperyan(1938) whispers: wow still playing :D
106...Ne4 (1:43) 107.Kf3 (0:15)
ahorsE(1651) whispers: s1
107...Kg6 (0:51)
tseltzer(1974) whispers: I wonder what the longest game in TL history in terms of moves has been
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: a good deal longer than this, I'm sure
108.Kf4 (1:03)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: this is at the upper end, for sure ;)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: white becomes 27 mins
tseltzer(1974) whispers: I think I read the other day the longest FIDE-sanctioned game was something like 269 moves
108...Kf7 (2:42)
LightKnight(1670) whispers: Arsovic-Nikolic, I guess. See Tim Krabbe's site.
Twikki(2126) whispers: Kxf5 1/2
109.Kxf5 (0:48)
Veit(1954) whispers: DRAW
wolfypup(1917) whispers: yes
kasperyan(1938) whispers: ok just draw at all
109...Nxg3+ (0:29)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: kf4
110.Kg5 (0:12)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: one last chance to slip up ;)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: or what?
110...Kxe8 (0:11) 111.Kh4 (0:03)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: oh ok this draws easily too
Jammes(1888) whispers: what was the fics movelimit btw?
Pulga(1693) whispers: 300 moves
kasperyan(1938) whispers: draw
KayVee(1438) whispers: draw
Jammes(1888) whispers: he just lets time run down to annoy leader :)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: is he going to run down his clock...
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: that's not polite
Pulga(1693) whispers: he must be busy breaking all the furniture around him
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: or it could be that, yeah
111...Kf7 (1:41) 112.Kxg3 (0:06) Kg6 (0:00) 113.Kh4 (0:02)
Jammes(1888) whispers: hehe pulga
kasperyan(1938) whispers: :D
113...Kh6 (0:08)
wolfypup(1917) whispers: would laugh if leader lets his clock run down to last secs
114.Kg3 (0:04) Kg6 (0:02) 115.Kh4 (0:02) Kh6 (0:01) 116.Kg3 (0:03) Kg5 (0:01) 117.Kh3 (0:01) h4 (0:02) 118.Kg2 (0:05) Kg4 (0:01)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: its gonna end in stalemate...
119.Kh2 (0:01)
ahorsE(1651) whispers: s1
119...Kf4 (0:01) 120.Kh3 (0:01) Kg5 (0:01) 121.Kg2 (0:01) Kh5 (0:01) 122.Kh3 (0:01) Leader offers a draw. ivey declines the draw request. 122...Kg5 (0:02) 123.Kg2 (0:02) Kg4 (0:01) 124.Kh2 (0:01)
CarlosKerber(1692) whispers: okg
124...h3 (0:06) 125.Kg1 (0:01)
kasperyan(1938) whispers: dont worry ivey i have 2 games ;)
LightKnight(1670) whispers: oh, come on...
125...Kh4 (0:31) 126.Kh2 (0:04) Kg4 (0:01) 127.Kg1 (0:02) Kh5 (0:01) 128.Kh2 (0:01) Kh4 (0:02) 129.Kg1 (0:01)
smallblackcat(2110) whispers: well its just a few more moves of this nonsense
129...Kg3 (0:04) 130.Kh1 (0:02)
Jammes(1888) whispers: aim reached. 12 minutes on clock again
Veit(1954) whispers: h2 !!
Twikki(2126) whispers: p@g2
HyperMagnus(2100) whispers: this should be awarded a double loss
kasperyan(1938) whispers: stalemate !!
Veit(1954) whispers: boeses ivey
Jammes(1888) whispers: antigame of the week perhaps. after yesterdays brilliancy by misteraw which is still not game of the week ??
130...h2 (2:37) Game drawn by stalemate 1/2-1/2

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