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burnage(2067) vs. sangalla(1928) *

Login to get PGN standard 45+45, 2008-10-19

1.e4 (0:00) e6 (0:00) 2.d4 (0:02) d5 (0:09) 3.e5 (0:06) c5 (0:12) 4.b4 (0:46)
sangalla(1928) whispers: what is this?
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: French Wing gambit
sangalla(1928) whispers: never face this strange move
HerrGott(1681) whispers: interesting
HerrGott(1681) whispers: go Sanga!@
sangalla(1928) whispers: i'll think for best move here....
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: it is called a serious mistake and one that is going to cost white.
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: its rubbish
pchesso(1669) whispers: never seen this, too
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: but playable
pchesso(1669) whispers: black should better take on d4 than b4 here?
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: at what level does it become playable?
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: prolly at around 2000 or so
HerrGott(1681) whispers: TheGrizz, it becomes playable at 2600, you aren't there yet, so you wouldn't understand us :P:)
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: let me it a different way - under what level does it become playable.
Bodia(1675) whispers: it's playable at engine vs. human level
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: as a former exponent of the French, Im constantly amazed at how few people test black in the mainlines
pchesso(1669) whispers: true
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: i am an exponent of the French
4...cxb4 (4:23)
pchesso(1669) whispers: mistell
pchesso(1669) whispers: and even more true on my rating level
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: would you not agree that 3. Nc3 and 3. Nd2 are the only really dangerous moves?
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: and to play b4 to me is a mistake on white's part. but then i dont agree with black reply either.
5.Nf3 (0:56) Nc6 (0:21)
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: yes Nc3, Nd3, f4, c3 are all dangerous
pchesso(1669) whispers: in french they play exchange, exchange, exchange all the time (3. exd5), a few advance (3. e5) - and Nc3 or Nd2 are never to be seen
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: err.. Nd2
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: my experience was the same
pchesso(1669) whispers: and, of course, most of all play 2. Nf3
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: the Alekhine-Chatard was the only line I feared, and I think I saw that twice in total
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: i see the advanced var and the exchange all the time. sometimes i see the nd2 but rarely the nc3 because a lot of people are scared of the Bb4.
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: yes, but again the mainline Winawer is as much a test for black as for white
pchesso(1669) whispers: but it is silly to fear Bb4. no french player knows these lines, because we never need them...
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: as to the h4 by white... i have seen that a total of 17 or 18 times now
6.a3 (2:24)
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: maybe more
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: well, at your level I would assume more people know the good stuff
sangalla(1928) whispers: benko's french reversed :)
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: speak for yourself pchesso, i know a lot of french players that love to play Bb4
6...Qb6 (0:54)
pchesso(1669) whispers: you got me wrong
sangalla(1928) whispers: its benko frence reverse declined
sangalla(1928) whispers: lol
7.Bd3 (0:44)
pchesso(1669) whispers: loving and knowing how to play it are different
7...Bd7 (0:17)
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: hmm, I thought axb4 Bxb4+ c3 there was quite good
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: they know how to play it
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: I mean, whites still a pawn down, but the pawn chain is quite solid
pchesso(1669) whispers: i love to play it, but get the opportunity so seldomly (2 games out of 50 maybe), that i really don't know any lines
pchesso(1669) whispers: and i am not alone
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: since black no longer has a c-pawn to undermine it
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: but i think the loss of the pawn is not worth it. that is my opinion though
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: probably not
8.Be3 (1:17)
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: but back to this game
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: I saw this French Wing gambit discussed somewhere, and the basic idea seemed to be to have a c3-d4-e5 chain when black has no c-pawn
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: i still think that cxd4 would have been better.
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: yes cxd4 allowed black to play along normal advance French lines
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: where b4 isnt really all that useful for white anyway
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: i say that because i have never had anyone try me with this gambit line.
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: chessgames.com doesnt have any master games with this line either
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: but I dont think their database is that good
8...bxa3 (3:45)
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: *this line being 4. b4
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: well just about any database is better then chessbases. with games that include two players with rating of 800's each.
9.O-O (1:11) Nb4 (4:27) 10.Nxa3 (0:38) Nxd3 (0:05) 11.Qxd3 (0:00) a6 (0:10) 12.Rfb1 (1:41) Qc7 (1:10)
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: Nb5 now makes a6 look like a lost tempo
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: i like Nd2 better, tempt black to play Bb5.
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: I doubt it will happen
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: then play c4 and start breaking down the center
13.Nd2 (2:22)
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: hmm ok, that plan does look good
13...Rc8 (0:34) 14.c4 (0:20)
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: can black take on a3 and then on c4?
14...Bxa3 (0:35) 15.Qxa3 (0:00)
jussu(1938) whispers: I'd rather take on c4 immediately
15...dxc4 (0:11) 16.Ne4 (0:05)
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: oh!
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: I think my question has been answered ;)
jussu(1938) whispers: This is horrible without black-squared bishop
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: absolutely
TheGrizz(2236) whispers: d6 is always a scary site when black is not paying any attention
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: loss of exchange by force here I believe
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: and that is only the start of blacks problems
jussu(1938) whispers: I'm not sure I would give knight on d6 for a rook...
smallblackcat(1948) whispers: right
jussu(1938) whispers: More like Rxb7 coming
sangalla lost connection; game adjourned *

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